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JonPickard

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hi all,

Here are a few more build pics of my emerging 23 nylon string by Stuart Mewburn.  There are about 40 others on my facebook page with more detail (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.279807522128781.59506.101788256597376&type=1)

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Michael

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Reply with quote  #2 
What  no bridge patch?? I guess it will be OK for nylon strings. I think the carbon fiber rod is the best way to go. Both my Sullivan style HG's have adjustable rods but the neck is so stable and firmly held in place that making an adjustment with the rod is difficult and minimal. I will go with carbon fiber in the future. I lovvvved watching the side show with text! Thanks for sharing this important nylon HG build.
Michael 

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Michael Schreiner
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Reply with quote  #3 
Michael, many classical guitars don't have one, like Bouché and Fredrich do...

Michael

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Oh yes,,, I forgot about those guys. Ben, I know you like a big bridge patch. I just thought with 23 strings that one might be warranted. I will always be the student.

Michael

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Reply with quote  #5 
Personally i like BIG bridge-plates, But I don't consider they are better, just I prefer them for me..
JonPickard

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Thanks for your interest guys - I appreciate all comments and am interested to hear your thoughts.  

9 more pics just added today at https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.279807522128781.59506.101788256597376&type=1



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JonPickard

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Reply with quote  #7 
...and a few more today showing sides and linings being made... more at 
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.279807522128781.59506.101788256597376&type=1


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JonPickard

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Oh yes,,, I forgot about those guys. Ben, I know you like a big bridge patch. I just thought with 23 strings that one might be warranted. I will always be the student.

Michael


Michael, it turns out Stuart is using carbon fibre under the bridge.

More pics up today at https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.279807522128781.59506.101788256597376&type=1

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JonPickard

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Reply with quote  #9 
Just to update anyone who is interested in this.  We have had major delays with this since Christmas, as Stuart (the luthier) has been quite ill, needing regular hospital treatments.  Fingers crossed he seems to be on the mend now.  He has been progressing slowly with the build in the meantime.  

I bought him a copy of Fred's Imaginary Instruments book to cheer him up - he said he read it to his grandchildren who now think their grandpa builds Flamingo shaped guitars.

There are lots of build pics on the facebook folder at https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.279807522128781.59506.101788256597376&type=1   I would love to hear what any of you guys think about it, especially luthiers.

Hopefully these pics will show how things are getting on.  Stuart has since glued the back on and has started with the purfling.

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Michael

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Reply with quote  #10 
I am sorry Stuart has been ill. It looks like he is back on track with the build now. A harp guitar is much more difficult for me to build than a "normal" guitar. I just started on Harp Guitar #3 this week with many design changes and challenges. Stuart is doing amazing work for you. I can't wait to see what the super treble area design will be. I am not able to tell what his plan is in that area from the pictures (I looked at all the pictures and read all the text again today). I don't know about anyone else but I am extremely thankful for your documentation. I hope that it will be available for a long time to come.

Michael

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JonPickard

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Reply with quote  #11 
Thanks Michael

Yea, I guess there must be lots of trials and design changes needed to find the best way to build.  That is why I am keen to hear luthiers' opinions on what they see on this build.

What kind of HG are you making now?

Re the supers - here are some pics of a test model that Stuart made a while ago to make sure our ideas would work.  The strings will bend at a right angle and 'disappear' through the soundboard near the cutaway to meet a fine tuner and then a harp peg (first pic).

On top of the soundboard will be some sharp/flat mechanisms that we hope will enable easy 3 way switching on each string - sharp, flat and natural, as I would like to be able to switch easily into any key.  Stuart describes them as 'carriages'.  They are basically rollers, with 3 marked positions to be operated by one finger.  See the 2 longest strings on the 2nd pic below for the most likely examples.  

I don't know just how easy they will be to use but Stuart says it works on the model, so we will try this. I hope we will see pics of this on the actual instrument before too long.

I will leave the folder on Facebook so they will be there for as long as facebook is.

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Michael

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Reply with quote  #12 
Thanks for explaining how you are having the treble strings function. I have seen that done before and I have a picture I can send you privately if you like. Now I understand why he made the curved piece to help cut the bindings in the treble string area.
Since you asked...
  I have been building the Sullivan Elliott style HG. My HG's have phosphor bronze and plain steel strings. The first 2 have 20 strings.



This new one will have an added low E (maybe), fine tuners for the super trebles mounted on the bridge, a cutaway and will have a bird theme. It is hard to see the drawing I know. The top and back are almost complete. I bent all the side pieces today. I only posted these pics because you asked what I was building now. I do not wish to take over your thread.  



Michael


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JonPickard

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Reply with quote  #13 
Hey Michael, your instruments look great, must be a real labour of love.  Cant wait to see the bird theme - will keep an eye out for some pics.

Yes, please do send me some pics of the similar treble idea, I am intrigued.  You can reach me at jon@jonpickard.co.uk

Jon

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nate

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Reply with quote  #14 
Michael; careful about mounting the super-treble tuners into the bridge.  it makes them inaccessible for repairs...  that is why more recent instruments have them going directly into the guitar top.  just saying....
Jon; love the instrument in progress, can't wait to hear it.

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Michael

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Reply with quote  #15 
Nate.. thanks for your concern. I don't want the fine tuners embedded in the top rim because if you place them there, then the trebles are pressing down on the bridge while all other strings are pulling the bridge up. I think this can restrict bridge and top movement. This is a mock up of what I have designed. It is removable from the bridge base for repairs and will be set back far enough on the bridge so that the string windings don't interfere with the saddle. Pellerin guitars does something similar.




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FredCarlson

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Reply with quote  #16 
Michael,

As you've found, there are ways to deal with having the fine tuners go directly in the bridge, and it does make intuitive sense that such a mounting method would at least be likely to give the supertrebles more of a similarity in timbre to the rest of the strings, as opposed to having them attached at the rim and and going over a downward-pressure, floating bridge.

That being said, I have had really good results with the latter.  There are certainly issues, and I've worried about all the things one might worry about.  In the end, I've been surprised to find that running the supertreble (or treble) harp strings in this latter mode does not seem to appreciably compromise tone in any way.  I'd have to make two instruments identical in all other ways in order to do an "A-B" testing, but one of the very nicest sounding instruments I've ever made (in my and my partner's opinions), The Barikoto, has 11 pretty heavy treble harp/koto strings going over a downward pressure bridge, with attachment at the rim.  Coupled with the fact that the main strings are nylon, this seemed like it could have the potential to really have a deleterious effect on the overall tone, especially of the main, nylon strings.  Not only would there be competing modes of vibration/excitation, but the main strings would have to work harder to drive a top burdened with all those extra strings and their necessary support structure.  My experience previously had been that I could get away with this, with the right bracing and engineering, but I was still a bit worried.  It turned out great!
(However, I didn't use the fine tuners in this design....dang, wasted opportunity)

The fine tuners are really a great asset, making it possible to use a simple 1:1 ratio zither pin and still get good tuneability.

Have fun!

Fred


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JonPickard

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Reply with quote  #17 
Well it has been some months since I last heard or posted anything about the Flamenco harp guitar (for want of a better description). Stuart is still gallantly working on it when his health and energy permit and the other day he sent me this pic.  I am sending all positive vibes his way...

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Michael

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Reply with quote  #18 
I was just getting ready to check in here for any progress and I see things are coming along very well. My HG #3 is almost ready for final assembly and finish. I hope it will be ready for the Gathering. Do you think you will make it to HG 11?

Michael

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JonPickard

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Reply with quote  #19 
Well done - would love to see some pics. Thats still the bird theme right?

No I won't be able to come to the HGG unfortunately - I live in the UK and am supporting a family of 5 on a gigging musician's income, so that would be too expensive a luxury!  Hopefully one day though when I am fabulously wealthy 

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Michael

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Reply with quote  #20 
I will send a pic of the mostly assembled guitar to your email that you provided earlier. I don't want to add another pic of my stuff to your thread. I have done too much already.

Michael 

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JonPickard

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Reply with quote  #21 
Hey, that's looking great, I wish I had your building skills.  Don't worry its ok about putting pics on this thread - its only a thread and I'm sure folks enjoy seeing them!  

I enjoyed the other pics in the folder and am looking forward to seeing the 'feather' design too.  Keep us posted.

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JonPickard

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Reply with quote  #22 
A couple more recent pics.Image_3.jpg Image_1.jpg 

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Michael

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Reply with quote  #23 
Great progress! Mine is almost at the same point as yours. I still have to spray 8 more coats of lacquer but it should be ready 1 month before the Gathering.

Michael

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JonPickard

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Reply with quote  #24 
Well done Michael - looking forward to some eye-candy!
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Michael

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Reply with quote  #25 
Jon, I just have to put the super treble strings on tomorrow and mine is done. This one is wider and deeper than my other two and fits me much more comfortably in the sitting position.  No pictures here yet but soon.  Building, finishing and setting up a harp guitar is very difficult and takes a lot of time. I just finished a 7 string (added low B) small jumbo steel string guitar (inspired by our Russian guest at the last Gathering) and the set up was nowhere as difficult as with a Harp Guitar.

Michael

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